View Poll Results: Active digitizer?

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • I want it!

    38 61.29%
  • Nah, no need.

    24 38.71%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 42

Thread: Active Digitizer with pen? -- No thank you

  1. #1
    Senior Member brennanyama is on a distinguished road brennanyama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    HONOLULU, HAWAII
    Posts
    183

    Active Digitizer with pen? -- No thank you

    Sup everyone, this is my first real post on this site, and I thought I would address a recurring topic on the adam, which is an active versus passive digitizer. First, it's important to understand the actual difference between an active and passive digitizer. If you do not know, or are not completely sure of what an active digitizer actually is, then you should read the following passage

    Quote Originally Posted by brennanyama
    In it's purest form, a digitizer is any device that digitally represents some kind of input, meaning that your mouse, keyboard, even camera are all types of digitizers; however, the term only recently surfaced in the technology world with the upbringing of touch screen devices. So generally, when someone says "digitizer", they are referring to some kind of touch screen, or touch pad device. When we refer to "active" and "passive" digitizers, we are further targeting a certain type of touch screen.

    A passive digitizer is the most common type of touch screen device, which requires the input to physically touch the screen in order to receive input. These types of passive touch screens come in two major types; capacitive and resistive. Resistive touch screens work by sensing where pressure is applied to the surface of the screen, which is flexible, and depresses upon physical contact. Resistive touch screens are considered older technology, and are generally found on older touch screen devices, although there are still many new devices which utilize a resistive screen. Capacitive touch screens work by generating a small electric field on the screen, which is disrupted when the user touches the screen with their finger. The device then "approximates" the geographical center of the disruption, and uses this as the exact point of the input. Capacitive touch screens are newer technology, and can be found on the iPhone, and nearly all of the new touch screen devices (the adam most likely amongst them). Although capacitive touch screens are considered to be superior to resistive ones, both types have their pros and cons. Resistive touch screens are far more accurate than capacitive screens because they can be interacted with a stylus, or anything with a fine point, and because they sense a physical depression rather than a disruption of an electric field, they are more more reliable in terms of accuracy. However, resistive touch screens do not support multiple touch input points, and because of their mechanism, they block out a lot of the visual screen below it, resulting in less clarity. Capacitive screens are much more responsive than resistive ones (less pressure needs to be applied), supports input from multiple touch points, and block out much less of the screens clarity than resistive screens. However, they come with the general gripe of being "inaccurate" because they work by approximating the geographic center of a touch input. This problem is somewhat solved by using special "capacitive styluses", but these come with mixed results; capacitive screens still are forced to approximate a geographical center with a far from reliable detection system (the electric field), making very inferior to resistive touch screens in terms of accuracy.

    An active digitizer is a powered digitizer, which requires a specialized input device, such as a stylus or pen. (NOTE: Do NOT confuse the stylus of an active digitizer with the stylus of a resistive touch screen. An active digitizer MUST use the stylus it comes with, while a resistive touch screen stylus is just a piece of plastic, you can use anything for input). The advantage of an active digitizer is that it can tell when the tip of the input "pen" is in the near proximity of the touch screen. This means that you can "hover" the pen over the surface of the touch screen, and the computer would be able to follow the pen with a cursor, even though the pen is not physically touching the screen. How exactly this works, even I don't know (ask a professional). An active digitizer has the added advantage of being significantly more accurate than using a capacitive stylus with a passive capacitive touch screen; however, it also has it's disadvantages. An active digitizer is bulky (takes up more physical room on top of the actual LCD screen), it kills the battery faster, but most of all, it's significantly more expensive.

    Most active digitizers on the market are dual capacitive/active digitizer touch screens. This means that they are able to accept input from your finger (just as a passive capacitive screen would), as well as accurate input from the included pen. This is another iteration of the term "multitouch", or the ability to accept multiple types of touch input (not to be confused with multiouch, the ability to detect multiple points of input on the screen).
    The big argument here is that an active digitizer will be a good addition to the adam, because we will be able to have handwriting recognition, as well as "accurate" pen dictation for uses such as sketching/drawing, jotting down notes, etc. However, I'm not really sure people realize just how "unreliable" (for lack of a better term) the experience with an active digitizer actually is. I have a HP touchsmart tx2 1025dx, a convertible tablet/laptop, which has an ntrig active digitizer (as well as capacitive touch screen capability). For this reason, I can say from experience, how this feature would be if it were put onto the adam.

    In short, I literally NEVER use the pen for any kind of dictation with the computer. Handwriting recognition is literally a joke, it takes the thing around 1-2 seconds to render your input into a word, and it needs to do this for every single word your write. As for general scribbling of handwritten notes--it's completely inferior to typing in terms of speed and readability. Really, the only time the pen has ever come in handy for me (as a student) is was is for writing directly on in lecture slides; however, even this is a silly application of the technology. While the pen input is moderately accurate, it is far from perfect, you still need to write slowly, or else your words will skew and you will have one straight line where your text should have been. Using a real pen, with real paper, is literally 3-4 times faster (and MUCH easier to read), and obviously way more accurate. Even a resistive screen is a far better more accurate alternative. In true reality, an active digitizer with a pen is just a crumb ahead of being useless in practical computing applications. Also, one needs to realize that (1) a pen slot takes up valuable room for hardware components, (2) looks ugly, and (3) is subject to being dropped and lost.

    I already know many will pose the argument "well the adam doesn't have a keyboard, so an active digitizer is the next best thing!". While it is true that an active digitizer is superior to a passive one in terms of accuracy, I'm here to tell you--it's still next to useless. A touchscreen is great for panning, zooming, and other similar dictations with the computer (all of which can be accomplished with a passive capacitive screen), but in terms of handwriting recognition and/or handwriting in general, it frankly sucks. I assure you, a well coded, practical, user-friendly, on-screen keyboard, will be a much faster (and neater) method of dictation than writing with a pen. Also, active digitizers eat the battery faster, and are significantly more expensive. And if you want to dictate REALLY quickly with your adam, it comes equipped with bluetooth 2.1 and multiple USB ports so you can go out and purchase a portable keyboard (a bluetooth one for the tech geeks), for the same price as the price increase would be for having an active digitizer I know I'm going to.

    While I know the culture of being a tech geek is "the ability for a device to do something really cool, more so than the actual practicality of that feature", I'm going to make a game call here, and say that the bads of an active digitizer outweigh the goods. I assure you, if an active digitizer gave the amazing, accurate, lightning-fast experience that everyone (who never actually tried using one before) makes it out to be, it would be on the iPad, wetab, galaxytab, eeePad, (lol) all the other capacitive tablets on the market. But the bottom line is that none of them do--they all have passive capacitive screens, and there's good reason for that. Active digitizers, are slow, power hungry, unreliable, expensive, bulky, and carry almost zero benefit. A short compilation of the pros and cos are below:

    Pros of an active digitizer:
    -More accurate (smooth handwriting recognition, better inking and drawing)
    -You can "hover" the pen over the screen

    Cons of an active digitizer:
    -Bulky (making the adam fatter)
    -Expensive
    -Battery consuming
    -The special stylus is fat (takes up a lot of room on the adam if a storage port is added), and subject to being lost
    -Handwriting recognition at it's best, is still inferior to an on-screen/physical keyboard in terms of speed

    So to sum it all up--active digitizer on the adam? A big fat NO for me. It might be a leg up in terms of features it has over the iPad, but it's an ugly leg, one which will be left docked in the stylus port once people start to realize how useless it is. Change is important, and is the entire concept of the adam, but change for the worse is certainly something we want to avoid...and I'm betting that bonus mystery feature will be more than enough to knock steve jobs off his high chair for the time being.

    Discuss? Vote above ^^^
    Last edited by brennanyama; December-03-2010 at 02:55 PM. Reason: clarification

  2. #2
    Senior Member swoOop5511 is on a distinguished road swoOop5511's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Saint Charles, Missouri USA
    Posts
    340
    not needed with the stylus that Rohan linked to

  3. #3
    Junior Member felton is on a distinguished road felton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Puerto Montt, Chile
    Posts
    18
    If it's possible I will choose an active digitizer, because is not only for writing, it's necessary for drawing and sketching.

  4. #4
    Junior Member ranran is on a distinguished road
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    28
    as I mentioned in a previous posting here, I want this to consolidate my note-taking. Yes, writing on notepads is easier, but when you have a dozen different notebooks with things jotted down that you plan to "type in" later on your computer, it just becomes silly. This would allow me to easily store all my notes, categorized and dated without that extra transcription stage, which never really happens anyway...

  5. #5
    Senior Member rwniel is on a distinguished road rwniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Current just outside London, soon to be Ottawa Canada
    Posts
    245
    I've been playing around with an alternative android tablet recently and once you get past the stock keyboard and try some some of the alternatives (smart keyboard pro especially) it's actually a pretty nice typing experience. So I can't image wanting to use pen input for writing I think I would find that far too cumbersome. More accurate drawing maybe but I would imagine there would be cost implications with adding an active digitizer so I would have to vote no for now. Everything is a series of balances and trade-offs so that mix of requirements is naturally going to be different for everyone. Whether active or passive, I hope the one on the Adam samples at a fast enough rate so it's at least very responsive. also that it responds well in the corners of the screen which I've noticed a lot of capacative touch screens seem to have problems with.

    Robert

  6. #6
    Junior Member coderet is on a distinguished road
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    12
    Me too. What about Stylus that payce talked about (http://www.notionaddicts.com/forums/...php/251-Stylus)

  7. #7
    If I may chime in with my $.02. I don't know if you've experienced handwriting recognition on any other device than the one you mentioned, but assuming you are only referring to that device, I wonder if it was installed with a poor implementation of it. Personally, I loved the hadnwriting on my older Palm IIIxe, iPaq hx2495, and my HTC Tilt. I first learned the notations on my Palm and was able to carry that over to every device I used since. I used each device frequently to jot quick notes during a meeting or something and can't recall a time that I dreaded it. I never noticed lags. I admit there were a few rare times it transcribed a letter I didn't intend for it to, but I can probably count on both hands how many times that happened over an 11 year period. I realize these devices had different screen technology and I can't arugue one way or the other on the price issue, but given that I could probably write 10 times faster on pulp, I personally think I would write on a tablet (legibly) 5 times faster than trying to type notes on a keyboard. I'm a pretty decent typist, but I cannot fathom trying to keep up with a lecture using a keyboard at all (not to mention all the students mad at me if I didn't have a very quiet keyboard ). I can see this feature being extremely useful to students in the engineering/math/sciences or music programs...note taking combined with free-hand drawing...engineers dream, lol.

  8. #8
    Senior Member josh4trunks is on a distinguished road josh4trunks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Posts
    194
    I agree, let the ADAM be a tablet. Alot of people seem to be posting " BLANK needs to be on the ADAM or it will suck/lose market share". If you don't like it then don't get it but lets just wait for the first iteration and make suggesstions after we get our hands on the thing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by josh4trunks View Post
    " BLANK needs to be on the ADAM or it will suck/lose market share".
    Haven't seen that one myself. Anyone thinking like that most likely won't be happy with anything. The casual conversations I've had with others have been more of a, "hey, wouldn't it be great if it had this?!?!" I certainly wouldn't consider the digitizer to be a deal breaker myself. Nothing wrong with daydreaming. However, Rohan did sort of open the door on discussions about features by bring on the whole mystery sensor can of worms.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Deecee is on a distinguished road Deecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by josh4trunks View Post
    " BLANK needs to be on the ADAM or it will suck/lose market share". If you don't like it then don't get it but lets just wait for the first iteration and make suggesstions after we get our hands on the thing.
    I guess you think I'm one of those folks. Well not at all. For me it is about what's the best this tablet can be. And I think it can be pretty great. So yes coming from an old resistive PDA, handwriting recognition would be great. Is it possible without giving up too much of what makes this thing sing --I don't know.

    I sketch I annotate. I'm out in the field, where a keyboard is very awkward. It would just give me so much more control and freedom if it was an option.

    Yes stylus' get lost. That is why my Dell tablet stylus is on a bungee cord. Idiot mitten yes, but it hasn't been lost on the construction site. And the Dell tablet and the iPad i'm using now make me want the Adam even more -- with or without a stylus. If I had a choice, though I'd take the stylus and use it.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. expanding the digitizer mode
    By phazei in forum App Feedback and Suggestions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December-24-2010, 10:11 AM
  2. Digitizer
    By Rijal in forum General Adam Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: December-15-2010, 11:54 PM
  3. Digitizer - please someone explain : )
    By FE101 in forum General Adam Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: December-09-2010, 12:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts